How veganism will lead to world apocalypse (or similar disastrous outcomes).

[Lucy Glitters]

Here's an essay I wrote in response to a thread in general discussion. It took me a while, and it's some good info, so I will post this here for future reference. I might also add more as time goes on and I get more research.

Note: This is a generalization and does not encompass all of the factors present in the issue. It is simplified so that the main arguments stand out.

S.'s essay on how veganism will lead to world apocalypse (or similar disastrous outcomes)

Say the United States of America went vegan tomorrow. Every single citizen. Do you think Africa's bellies would suddenly be filled and every one would be happy biscuits?

No.

Think of it this way: vegans claim that the food used to feed livestock could instead be diverted to the world's poor. Wrong. Because livestock consume plants that humans normally do not eat: hay, straw, alfalfa, rye grass, and other grasses. Though in some cases they are fed products that humans can consume, (like maize and corn), this amount is not substantial enough to feed to the world's poor.

Now back to the scenario: if every citizen of the U.S.A went vegan tomorrow, what would happen to the economy? Most certainly, the price of meat and animal products would fall rapidly, until the industry becomes wiped out all together.

Vegans theorize that what would happen next is that crops would be grown on the land that was originally used for raising animals, therefore, the supply on grain would rise, and the world would be fed. Economically, if this situation actually played out, that would happen. The supply would rise, therefore the price would decrease, therefore the poor would be able to better afford it.

But this will never happen. Why? For one, poverty and starvation is not only caused by the lack of foods, but also by the way that the food is distributed. You can see this trend in Africa right now. No doubt the continent has enough resources, but look at the way it is distributed: some areas have more than enough food for its people, in others, citizens starve either because the food is not available or too expensive. This is the work of corrupt governments and companies, and overall poor planning and land development. Also, if the infrastructure (ie: roads and buildings) is not able to produce and transport food, the supply will be low, even if the resources are plentiful. So if we extrapolate this into my little scenario, even if the USA was bursting with extra plants, some parts of the world will still starve.

Furthermore, how can we be so sure we'll be able to grow crops on the land once inhabited by livestock? Will the transfer be smooth? Vegans say it will, scientists prove it won't be. Agriculture is an industry. It does not exist for the benefit of the people, it exists to make profit. Agriculture is controlled by corporations who want to make the most revenue with the least cost to them. Therefore, suitable land is needed, to maximize the amount of crops grown (therefore maximizing the profits). The most suitable land has a moderate climate, rich soils, good precipitation, proximity to water, and an abundance of natural "pest" control (ie: lady bugs, spiders, etc). Unfortunately, this land is usually already occupied by an ecosystem: plants and animals. These species must then, logically, be evicted from their land, the earth will be cleared, infrastructure built, and crops planted and processed. Understandably, this causes huge ecosystem damage and animal mortality. Food chains are destroyed, the environment is compromised. Therefore, we should use as little land as possible to limit our effect. Vegans say we can use the existing land originally used for livestock: but they are wrong. Livestock land is not equal to the land used for growing crops. In most cases, it is very unsuitable: the soil may be hardened, churned up, filled with waste byproducts from the animals, and completely depleted of natural microorganisms that usually reside in soil. It would take lots of time (therefore lots of funds) to reculture the land to suit crop production. No corporation is going to do this, therefore they will clear more and more fertile land, and the land originally used for livestock will remain barren and untouched. So we can conclude that, in fact, if the USA went vegan, the supply plants will either remain constant, meaning the poor won't reap the benefits, or more land will be cleared, which harms our environment more and more.

This demolishes the argument that veganism helps the world's poor. Veganism also hurts our environment. Shall I explain?

There are many theories, but it boils down to this: imagine you had, say a nail and a board of wood. You want to put the nail in the wood, so you use a rock, and repeatedly hit the nail from the same direction with the same amount of force. After a while, you notice that you aren't really driving the nail in, you're just bending it when you hit it. You also notice that the wood is splitting and that you are doing more harm than originally intended. What is the solution? Well, maybe you should try to use a hammer instead. Maybe you should try out a few different types of tools. Maybe you need to hit the nail from a different angle, or with different force. Maybe you need new wood, or a sharper nail.

An omnivore would do this, a vegan would continue to hit the nail with the rock until both the nail and wood are broken and unrepairable. Mixed farming is the best thing for the environment. Working the land in many different ways keeps it rich, fertile, and supple. Veganism causes the monoculture of farming: one method, one way, one area, all the time. Crop rotation can only do so much. A method many farmers use today to keep their land fertile is to grow crops for one or two seasons, then allow animals to graze on the land. This allows the soil and plants to stay healthy, and the animal manure helps replenish nutrients.

If mass veganism took place, the soil of the world would become unfertile- fast. So let's go back to our vegan USA. Say we went vegan tomorrow...then at about 2050, I'll estimate, the soil of the US becomes infertile and unsuitable for growing crops. Then what happens? Well, to put it quite simply, we would need massive funds to reculture all of the soil, the supply of plants would decrease dramatically, the price would jack up astronomically, and many of the citizens would be unable to afford food. We would have to borrow money from the other countries of the world to fix our environment, and we would not be able to export products to other countries to make more money. Other countries will be affected, trade agreements severed, conflicts will arise over the lack of products and resources. The USA is a powerhouse in today's global economy. If the US falls, everyone does. They consume and produce a massive amount of resources, therefore stimulating the global economy. Disaster would strike if the US ever falls, and it would if mass veganism took place. In other words, the USA, if they went vegan tomorrow, would sink into an economic depression in less than 50 years. Not only does veganism NOT reduce poverty, it increases it: ten fold.

In conclusion, I state that veganism is harmful if practiced on a wide scale. It does not reduce world poverty: buying power of the world's poor will remain the same or decrease even if the entire USA went vegan. The environment will be compromised: severely. The global economy will become unbalanced, and in general, humankind will be negatively affected. To what extent? We don't know yet. Therefore, for mother earth's sake: eat a steak.

[Zion]

Great essay! Though, you might want to also include the aspect of pesticide used in Agriculture. It's a very big problem, particularly because of how it's tested, it's widespread use, and the effects on the area sprayed with it.

Some good articles on Pesticide and it's effect on the environment:


http://www.eoearth.org/article/Agricultural_pesticide_contamination


http://www.pesticide.org/LearningGlossary.pdf (PDF file, discusses some definitions and types of Pesticide)

http://www.pesticide.org/Default.htm (A group that works to find alternatives to Pesticide use)

http://www.pesticide.org/factsheets.html#pesticides (Here is the fact sheet from that site, shows some of the elements in Pesticide and their effects)


Overall though, A+ stuff. 

[Lucy Glitters]

I expect a cool point Zion. That took me so much work.

No I'm just kidding. Sort of. I'll be revising it, so I'll add more things, definitely. I'd also like to put it on our web page, maybe as a first blog entry.

[veganimalien]

Take this for what it is worth: when I go about writing an "essay" I make a thorough investigation of the topic, and (this is helpful) copy and paste URLs, as I investigate them, into a text file to reference the evidence which led me to believe whatever I'm promulgating. That way another person can follow my trail and confirm or critique my analysis.
In this spirit of service to truth, wherever it may lead, I offer the critique of your article, as it seems to me to be grossly misleading.
This is what www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_feed says

"According to the American Feed Industry Association, as much as $20   billion worth of feed ingredients are purchased each year. These   products range from grain mixes to orange rinds to beet pulps. The feed   industry is one of the most competitive businesses in the agricultural   sector, and is by far the largest purchaser of U.S. corn, feed grains,   and soybean meal. Tens of thousands of farmers with feed mills on their   own farms are able to compete with huge conglomerates with national   distribution. Feed crops generated $23.2 billion in cash receipts on   U.S. farms in 2001. At the same time, farmers spent a total of $24.5   billion on feed that year.    Around 600 million tons of feed are produced annually around the world."
If you look into the statistics as the USDA tracks all of this information, you'll see that only in the most recent years has the Food, Alcohol and Industrial use total surpassed use for Feed. That is due to ethanol bio-fuel not vegan diets.

www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FeedGrains/Table.asp?t=04

Anyway, I couldn't get into the rest of the article because the first paragraph was so far out of touch. I hope you're not just some employee of the Industrial Blood Lust Complex who writes disinformation for a pay check.

[Pollock]

Note: This is a generalization and does not encompass all of the factors present in the issue. It is simplified so that the main arguments stand out.

[Medium Rare]

Take this for what it is worth: when I go about writing an "essay" I make a thorough investigation of the topic, and (this is helpful) copy and paste URLs, as I investigate them, into a text file to reference the evidence which led me to believe whatever I'm promulgating. That way another person can follow my trail and confirm or critique my analysis.
In this spirit of service to truth, wherever it may lead, I offer the critique of your article, as it seems to me to be grossly misleading.
This is what www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_feed says

"According to the American Feed Industry Association, as much as $20   billion worth of feed ingredients are purchased each year. These   products range from grain mixes to orange rinds to beet pulps. The feed   industry is one of the most competitive businesses in the agricultural   sector, and is by far the largest purchaser of U.S. corn, feed grains,   and soybean meal. Tens of thousands of farmers with feed mills on their   own farms are able to compete with huge conglomerates with national   distribution. Feed crops generated $23.2 billion in cash receipts on   U.S. farms in 2001. At the same time, farmers spent a total of $24.5   billion on feed that year.    Around 600 million tons of feed are produced annually around the world."
If you look into the statistics as the USDA tracks all of this information, you'll see that only in the most recent years has the Food, Alcohol and Industrial use total surpassed use for Feed. That is due to ethanol bio-fuel not vegan diets.

www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FeedGrains/Table.asp?t=04

Anyway, I couldn't get into the rest of the article because the first paragraph was so far out of touch. I hope you're not just some employee of the Industrial Blood Lust Complex who writes disinformation for a pay check.

A thorough investigation using wikipedia? ROFLMAO

[Angry Dog]

Take this for what it is worth: when I go about writing an "essay" I make a thorough investigation of the topic, and (this is helpful) copy and paste URLs, as I investigate them, into a text file to reference the evidence which led me to believe whatever I'm promulgating. That way another person can follow my trail and confirm or critique my analysis.
In this spirit of service to truth, wherever it may lead, I offer the critique of your article, as it seems to me to be grossly misleading.
This is what www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_feed says

"According to the American Feed Industry Association, as much as $20   billion worth of feed ingredients are purchased each year. These   products range from grain mixes to orange rinds to beet pulps. The feed   industry is one of the most competitive businesses in the agricultural   sector, and is by far the largest purchaser of U.S. corn, feed grains,   and soybean meal. Tens of thousands of farmers with feed mills on their   own farms are able to compete with huge conglomerates with national   distribution. Feed crops generated $23.2 billion in cash receipts on   U.S. farms in 2001. At the same time, farmers spent a total of $24.5   billion on feed that year.    Around 600 million tons of feed are produced annually around the world."
If you look into the statistics as the USDA tracks all of this information, you'll see that only in the most recent years has the Food, Alcohol and Industrial use total surpassed use for Feed. That is due to ethanol bio-fuel not vegan diets.

www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FeedGrains/Table.asp?t=04

Anyway, I couldn't get into the rest of the article because the first paragraph was so far out of touch. I hope you're not just some employee of the Industrial Blood Lust Complex who writes disinformation for a pay check.

FOR FUCKS SAKE THIS WAS DONE THREE YEARS AGO. How about you do an investigation into why your ass can't read dates

[Bluzeman]

Take this for what it is worth: when I go about writing an "essay" I make a thorough investigation of the topic, and (this is helpful) copy and paste URLs, as I investigate them, into a text file to reference the evidence which led me to believe whatever I'm promulgating. That way another person can follow my trail and confirm or critique my analysis.
In this spirit of service to truth, wherever it may lead, I offer the critique of your article, as it seems to me to be grossly misleading.
This is what www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_feed says

"According to the American Feed Industry Association, as much as $20   billion worth of feed ingredients are purchased each year. These   products range from grain mixes to orange rinds to beet pulps. The feed   industry is one of the most competitive businesses in the agricultural   sector, and is by far the largest purchaser of U.S. corn, feed grains,   and soybean meal. Tens of thousands of farmers with feed mills on their   own farms are able to compete with huge conglomerates with national   distribution. Feed crops generated $23.2 billion in cash receipts on   U.S. farms in 2001. At the same time, farmers spent a total of $24.5   billion on feed that year.    Around 600 million tons of feed are produced annually around the world."
If you look into the statistics as the USDA tracks all of this information, you'll see that only in the most recent years has the Food, Alcohol and Industrial use total surpassed use for Feed. That is due to ethanol bio-fuel not vegan diets.

www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FeedGrains/Table.asp?t=04

Anyway, I couldn't get into the rest of the article because the first paragraph was so far out of touch. I hope you're not just some employee of the Industrial Blood Lust Complex who writes disinformation for a pay check.

FOR FUCKS SAKE THIS WAS DONE THREE YEARS AGO. How about you do an investigation into why your ass can't read dates

LOL!

[Jeni]

FOR FUCKS SAKE THIS WAS DONE THREE YEARS AGO. How about you do an investigation into why your ass can't read dates

 

[Prawns Mackenzie]

Anyway, I couldn't get into the rest of the article because the first paragraph was so far out of touch. I hope you're not just some employee of the Industrial Blood Lust Complex who writes disinformation for a pay check.

Its a Conspiracy! Get out your tinfoil hats everyone!

[Jeni]

Get out your tinfoil hats everyone!

YAY! Been dying to dust mine off for ages!

[Prawns Mackenzie]

In all seriousness, that quote is something I've come to expect to come from a raving conspiracy theorist who can't accept the fact that *gasp* people can actually believe something that totally disagrees with them. Just because someone online defends the position of being an omnivore, does not make them some sort of shill for the "Big Bad Meat Industry" which in this case has a "Blood Lust".

[Nice Guy Cody]

If the ARs, Vegs and "Green$" really gave half the fuck about the starving poor they like to pretend they do when it makes them look compassionate, maybe they should stop using hysteria and misinformation to oppose the biotechnologies that are being developed to try and save exactly those people, and have in the past.
 
It'd be better than feeding them inedible garbage, which is what veganminalalienwhatever seems to be suggesting:
 

"According to the American Feed Industry Association, as much as $20   billion worth of feed ingredients are purchased each year. These   products range from grain mixes to orange rinds to beet pulps.